tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post8058714580216407063..comments2023-11-03T11:00:07.566+00:00Comments on Displacement: Big five poetry publishers in the UK: a gender auditFiona Moorehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10052038869211775919noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-43207175695819603982013-05-25T18:40:18.870+01:002013-05-25T18:40:18.870+01:00Charles, you are of course right... getting the in...Charles, you are of course right... getting the information is just the first stage. There's more of that to get, too - whether for gender or all the other questions raised.<br /><br />I think there are some invisible gatekeepers. For example, I don't know who at the Guardian (or any other paper) decides which books it should review. I don't know how shortlists and winners for the major prizes are chosen - how much it's a matter for the judges, and what other considerations apply. <br /><br />It would be good to get more of this stuff into the open. And then to apply pressure. How? A letter to the Guardian Review would be a nice start on that particular issue, with several signatories. Knowing who takes the decisions means they can be questioned about it, in public and private.<br /><br />That's just a start - I've been on holiday, just got back. Any ideas?<br /><br /><br />Fiona Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10052038869211775919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-83207440439325812822013-05-25T18:30:21.985+01:002013-05-25T18:30:21.985+01:00Thanks Neil for this correction on sales figures -...Thanks Neil for this correction on sales figures - it's good to hear that. <br /> <br />On the theme of big five publicity, have you read CBe's recent piece? http://sonofabook.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/talking-to-big-people.html. This suggests that publishers' publicity departments can be somewhat incompetent! And arrogant. And short-sighted, too - those of us who will be wandering around CB's book fair are book buyers. We take our book bags and fill them up. We'd like to see Bloodaxe, Faber etc there too, taking part. Picador's presence last year affected my perception of them. <br /><br />Am looking forward to hearing CD Wright at Ledbury. <br />Fiona Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10052038869211775919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-19939127649000473472013-05-16T20:21:36.666+01:002013-05-16T20:21:36.666+01:00Recognition of the problem may go part of the dist...Recognition of the problem may go part of the distance towards a solution. Recognition has to filter through more widely in the literary world. The issue continues to provoke vitriol and person attacks which invalidation is part of the problem. Many men don't even consider the subject worthy of consideration (she said, generalizing, though not without reason) which is a great obstacle to any solution or improvement. <br /><br />The original idea of women's work was NOT a gendered book but one intended to bridge as per my comment above. Couldn't sell it nor any other anthology except something to do with women….and I don’t believe my ideas are crap. And then you should have heard some editors' responses to idea of reviewing a women's anthology, heaven forbid. Anyway, in this way women writers are shooed back into their pigeon-holes, their accomplishments - diminished as "special interest" - confirming gender as their only subject. My essay also touches on this. <br />That the issue is how women are perceived and treated generally may make it seem too hopelessly enormous and wide-ranging, but I like to hope if I can possibly manage it. So it's a ship. It takes a long time to turn.<br />Eva Salzmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17352235455502746924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-68880846476784577252013-05-16T20:16:08.695+01:002013-05-16T20:16:08.695+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Eva Salzmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17352235455502746924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-56188728682949026772013-05-16T19:19:41.674+01:002013-05-16T19:19:41.674+01:00Eva - I too publish "regardless of gender&quo...Eva - I too publish "regardless of gender". In the sense that if every manuscript that arrived had come in anonymously, I truly believe that these are the ones I'd have chosen. Yet the stats (somewhere above in this thread) show that I'm severely imbalanced towards male writers. I publish so few writers that I'm hardly a test case, but for all the value of Fiona's and your own research in pointing up the issue (which everyone in this thread seems to agree on), What Do We Do About It? - a question no one here seems to have moved on to.charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16580118367334638930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-12869997679317423052013-05-16T11:43:11.519+01:002013-05-16T11:43:11.519+01:00Shirani, but submitting to magazines and journals ...Shirani, but submitting to magazines and journals IS the first step to getting published! So you did the right thing. As an aspiring poet you should be reading, and aspiring to appear in, magazines as well as books. It isn't easy to break in; it's well known as being difficult. Publishers aren't just buying your poems, as if they were apples or tins of shoe-polish; they're signing a contract to work with you, the author, and as with any other thing where you might approach someone to take you on in some capacity, it's as well to have some kind of CV to show them. They want to know you're serious, in it for the long haul. Publishing is a long game. As much as anything else, tenacity counts. Ms Baroquehttp://baroqueinhackney.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-1543846959193537712013-05-16T11:16:25.871+01:002013-05-16T11:16:25.871+01:00Please do check out my introduction to Women's...Please do check out my introduction to Women's Work: Modern Women Poets Writing in English (Seren) co-edited with Amy Wack who is poetry editor at Seren. This includes figures showing Bloodaxe stands outs as publisher in respect of their publishing regardless of gender. <br /><br />It includes remarks on what I noted was the "glass ceiling" of 1/3 women in most so-called mainstream anthologies. Other starting points for essay - or the reason for making it as long as it is - were the figures for women editors of anthologies and another Guardian poetry series again bereft of the women poets one would expect to be there. And then there was the Guardian article by a young women commissioned at that time in a rather predictable way as the response to exactly this criticism. <br /><br />This blog post is one of a number that's appeared since the publication of Women's Work which adds to and amplifies statistics I was sure to gather and include for my essay, lest anyone disparage the value of my own and other poets' experience. Regardless of the essay permit me to recommend the book for its poetry, which is the main point after all and for which it was acclaimed, in Independent for example. One main aim of it was to fill in the gaps and, in particular, bridge the USA/UK/Ireland divide....as I do myself. I'm still amazed that my well-read Goldsmiths students often haven't heard of many of these poets....as indeed I'm sure many American students don't but should know of those poets' counterparts here. Eva Salzmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17352235455502746924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-14196618491679101322013-05-16T07:40:53.134+01:002013-05-16T07:40:53.134+01:00Interesting comments and thanks Fiona for this inf...Interesting comments and thanks Fiona for this informative and insightful article. It's tough being a new poet, a woman poet and an Asian woman poet. I face all these. I'd love to get a poetry collection published but publishers either don't read, even though they claim they do, or they don't accept unsolicited manuscripts. I got so fed up I started submitting to literary magazines and journals. The truth is that most poetry book publishers prefer a well known name or someone introduced by a well known name. For others like me its not easy to break in. Shiranihttp://shiranirajapakse.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-68897236552220113602013-05-15T16:11:24.384+01:002013-05-15T16:11:24.384+01:00What is the best way, for a new poet as I am, to b...What is the best way, for a new poet as I am, to be considered for publication? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13825194764148249321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-10175484710732469792013-05-15T13:54:51.133+01:002013-05-15T13:54:51.133+01:00Good point of Sheenah's about the Guardian who...Good point of Sheenah's about the Guardian who used to review small presses (including us!) but who in recent months seem to have slid back to the BIg Name poetry publishers.Nicholas Murrayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07189263209323471368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-86742765118817383782013-05-15T11:48:13.088+01:002013-05-15T11:48:13.088+01:00I am hitting a glass ceiling too. Except I am male...I am hitting a glass ceiling too. Except I am male, in my thirties and editor at a well respected magazine. <br />Boo hoo. <br /><br />Ps. The vast majority of the poets I like right now are female. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-206563676755128242013-05-15T11:14:33.413+01:002013-05-15T11:14:33.413+01:00I had a Salt Modern Voices pamphlet which was not ...I had a Salt Modern Voices pamphlet which was not reviewed in such lofty places. So it's rather random what is chosen to be noticed. The SMV pamphlets were all worthy of note. They need a broader sweep, because at the moment the nationals are cutting their poetry review spaces and therefore not serving their readers. And quite frankly the standard of reviewing in The Guardian is not what one would hope. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-53026620854232563002013-05-15T11:10:57.365+01:002013-05-15T11:10:57.365+01:00I've suspected this bias against older poets f...I've suspected this bias against older poets for some time, but didn't realise it went back quite so far. When I was a young poet, I was keen to learn and didn't want to publish too early. Peter's story is horrifying. This age bias is one worth investigating!As a woman and aged 58, no wonder I keep meeting barriers. Though I've had ten poetry publications out with good small presses, and sometimes I think I am better off there than being with the bigger presses - if they drop you, you're stuffed. <br />I agree with you about gay poetry - the poet's sexual preferences don't interest me - the poems do. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-8813672605391555542013-05-15T10:25:59.803+01:002013-05-15T10:25:59.803+01:00Just a comment on the issue of 'Oh it's ok...Just a comment on the issue of 'Oh it's okay because lots of good women are coming through publishing pamphlets.' I think this is very similar to the idea that in big organisation there can't be a problem because there are lots of women in junior positions and they are bound to progress to senior level soon. Except fast forward a few years and it's still a (white)men's/boys' club.<br /><br />I got to a point where I just felt I was hitting some kind of glass ceiling in terms of poetry publication. I wonder whether more women than men give up on poetry. I also wonder what will happen to the fresh-faced creative writing graduates (of both genders.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-46028237018842643272013-05-14T17:16:47.408+01:002013-05-14T17:16:47.408+01:00Dear me, just spotted something else, only having ...Dear me, just spotted something else, only having just come upon this blog ( while supposed to be on holiday) . I question the assumption about "2-3000 (sales) for a publisher such as Picador which has a marketing team and only publishes a few (poetry) books a year.<br /><br />Bloodaxe and Carcanet share a great marketing team at Faber Factory Plus (with Faber Factory doing our ebooks). Our sales of poets with comparable reputations to Picador's are equal to or higher than theirs. Our marketing and press publicity for a poet or book doesn't stop a few months after publication as tends to happen with the big trade houses. We keep promoting our authors right through the year and into the following year or years, which is why you'll see many more of our authors doing readings at festivals and the other regular reading venues. I really take exception to this myth that poets do better with on small lists with trade publishers (apart from Faber obviously whose marketing of its own list is unmatched). OK, you may work with an editor who has a small list of poets to deal with, but the notion that this attention continues with full-on marketing back-up from the rest of the publishing house after publication is nonsense. In practice, the publicity and marketing people at the big trade houses quickly move on, once the poet's book is published, to devoting almost all their efforts to the publisher's commercial books. The management wouldn't allow anything but that to happen (again, apart from at Faber, which everyone seems to forget is an independent publishing house, albeit a rather large one). Whereas the specialist poetry publisher mostly only publish poetry or poetry-related titles, so we keep promoting the poets and the poetry.Editor Bloodaxe Bookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05921525031593883541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-32968313942990268902013-05-14T16:50:26.817+01:002013-05-14T16:50:26.817+01:00Sorry, two texting errors crept in here.
Past not ...Sorry, two texting errors crept in here.<br />Past not pasties in the parenthesis (predictive text error).<br />And in the sentence about gay poets, insert the missing "not": some of these not necessarily focussing on gay subject matter in their work" .Editor Bloodaxe Bookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05921525031593883541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-76452771722027181022013-05-14T16:47:03.283+01:002013-05-14T16:47:03.283+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Editor Bloodaxe Bookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05921525031593883541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-32396660879862869712013-05-14T16:42:44.169+01:002013-05-14T16:42:44.169+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Editor Bloodaxe Bookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05921525031593883541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-58867852567388727662013-05-14T16:40:47.711+01:002013-05-14T16:40:47.711+01:00Anonymous has misread the Bloodaxe submissions gui...Anonymous has misread the Bloodaxe submissions guide. There is and has been no moratorium. We do receive thousands of submissions, but none are returned unread. But we have a stable of poets producing new books every year, so the openings for first collections are few. Three in 2013, one man, two women. And there is no positive discrimination over gender or ethnicity. If we've ended up with a list which is roughly half women, half men ( with more books by women over the pasties years), and with a significant number of black and Asian poets, that is is simply a reflection of the quality of the work as far as I am concerned. We also publish a significant number of gay poets, some of these necessarily focusing on gay subject matter in their work. So what we publish reflects the range of poetic talent in the population, which seems to me the natural outcome of an open editorial policy, just going for what I see as the best work from all kinds of poets. Maybe not focusing on one narrow area of poetry also helps keep the list open.<br />Neil Astley, Editor, Bloodaxe BooksEditor Bloodaxe Bookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05921525031593883541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-55496022617201068412013-05-12T17:44:14.354+01:002013-05-12T17:44:14.354+01:00Thanks for all the comments. This blog is now goi...Thanks for all the comments. This blog is now going on holiday, with D A Powell, Jason Schneidermann and Kathryn Maris for poetic company.Fiona Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10052038869211775919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-55038906218617808452013-05-12T16:13:43.431+01:002013-05-12T16:13:43.431+01:00Thanks Anon. Rethinking is happening to some exte...Thanks Anon. Rethinking is happening to some extent, isn’t it, with online poem-a-day blogs, online magazines, ebooks, poetry apps… For me none of this is the same as having a book in the hand – especially for poetry, where I want to move freely around. A generation brought up on ebooks may reinvent this world.<br /><br />Sales figures I’ve heard quoted are (on average) 350/400 for Salt, 500 for Bloodaxe (higher for their popular poets), and 2-3,000 for a publisher such as Picador which has a marketing team and only publishes a few books each year. <br />Fiona Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10052038869211775919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-39353470063687564902013-05-12T16:01:29.788+01:002013-05-12T16:01:29.788+01:00Thank you Nancy (love the zigzag name) for these s...Thank you Nancy (love the zigzag name) for these speculations. I didn’t even know Newsweek was no longer on paper! At least we live in interesting times… Fiona Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10052038869211775919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-66389383561931978662013-05-11T20:01:50.102+01:002013-05-11T20:01:50.102+01:00Hi Fiona,
Great bit of analysis - having data rea...Hi Fiona,<br /><br />Great bit of analysis - having data really increases transparency. I was amazed not only at the gender issue, but the smallness of the poetry 'industry' as a whole. Certainly its interesting to see that one man (Neil Astley) makes the decision on 36% of the "big" five output. Data on the gender of the decision makers elsewhere might also be interesting.<br /><br />I believe that Bloodaxe have or had a moratorium on new authors and return up to 5,000 manuscripts unread every year. Certainly their submissions page says "If we aren't able to publish your poetry this may have nothing to do with the quality of your work" which, if you think about it, is a challenging idea! Surely it is time for some fresh thinking about the relation between being printed and being published, the internet, and particular mobile phones would seem to provide a more interesting way of writing and sharing poetry than the current stifling of both quality and quantity in the print 'industry'. Certainly it would remove the barrier to institutionalised gender imbalance.<br /><br />Best regards.<br /><br />BTW - Do you know what the print run is for these books? Has poetry fetishized being printed?<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-43055838597052969552013-05-10T18:51:01.565+01:002013-05-10T18:51:01.565+01:00CB editions: guilty as charged. I’m well aware of ...CB editions: guilty as charged. I’m well aware of this imbalance. (It’s particularly bad this year: out of 9 titles, around double the usual annual number, only one is by - and translated by - a woman.) As for what, if anything, I should be doing about it, I don’t know. Positive discrimination? The thought of having a year in which I published only women writers has crossed my mind, but no.<br /> charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16580118367334638930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1648230750208763565.post-66464688227826841662013-05-10T12:31:54.736+01:002013-05-10T12:31:54.736+01:00The idea that things are more utopian in smaller p...The idea that things are more utopian in smaller presses doesn't seem to hold up. CB press, which is excellent, appears to only have 4 female writers ut of 24 (at a rough count) which is nowehere near parity: http://www.cbeditions.com/books.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com